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You’re probably also very familiar with this – Disney’s iconic Cinderella Castle.

It’s not just centerpiece of the Magic Kingdom. It’s also the symbol for Disney movies and television credits.
Most people also know that the main inspiration behind Cinderella’s Castle is Germany’s Neuschwanstein Castle.

Neuschwantstein is often pictured secluded in the hills of Bavaria. It’s easy to imagine the tranquil setting. However, the bottom of that hill (Schwangau) is the German equivalent of tacky tourist area. Which is a slight exaggeration, but the area does seem to personify every Bavarian (and thus, German) stereotype.
Instead of Mickey ears they sell lederhosen.
Instead of all-you-can-eat buffets they have currywurst and spaetzle.
Instead of miniature fun parks there are multiple nature hikes in the mountains and lakes.
Instead of a Ripley’s Believe it or Not Museum visit King Ludwig II’s museum or the lesser-known castle practically next door to Neuschwanstein.
Instead of grand resorts with pools and valet parking there are private vacation rentals in half-timbered homes.
Instead of traffic jams people rely on great public transportation options or horse-drawn carriage rides.
Basically bottom-of-the-hill Neuschwanstein is surprisingly touristy, but equally charming.
If only I had known.
Unfortunately, most accounts of Neuschwanstein are pretty clear that it’s pretty shallow. Beautiful on the outside, drab on the inside. I made a decision to just make a quick stop en route from Stuttgart to Garmisch instead of dedicating the day to explore the area. And unfortunately, the GPS system played a few tricks with our routing which made us later than expected. So we really did not have enough time to see everything the area had to offer.

Our less than 2 hour visit was filled with schnitzel sandwich snacking, postcard browsing, sign reading, and posing for photos in front of gorgeous landscapes. Here are some things I would have been happy to do if we had a few more hours.

I recommend this area of Germany to families who like to hike. Between the two castles and the museum there are definitely enough activities to fill a day, but I don’t know if those things alone would be enough for young kids. The trails, however, would be a fun way to explore the area. If you’re a King Ludwig II fan – you don’t need convincing. If you don’t know anything about him, I’m sure you’ll learn to appreciate him after a visit. Is this a must-see for Germany visitors? Well, my first visit to this castle was after living in the country a total of 7 years, so I guess that depends on you!
Photo by Christian Lambert Photography 
This is my 100th post! It’s been slightly over a year since I restarted this blog. Last month I wrote a little over 1/4 of the whole blog’s post as part of the A-Z challenge. I enjoyed that challenge so much, that I decided to make up my own challenge for May. Twice a week, I write a post about an attraction we’ve visited and haven’t written about before here.
Why? To encourage people to travel or to help someone trying to learn a little more about a place on their to-do list. See, for me, my travel researching style includes reading posts about what people did at a place. From there, I’ll usually make a decision that it’s a good fit – or that it’s a bad fit. The problem is there’s nothing I can say about our time at Le Jardin d’Acclimation in Paris, France that would justify a decision either way.
If you’re unfamiliar with this park – it’s part botanical garden, part amusement park, part zoo, part playground and completely everything that could possibly answer “what would a child like to spend their day doing”.
And that would be reason enough to go.
I first heard about it long before we even moved to France. A blogger I read at the time celebrated her daughter’s first birthday in Paris and wanted to do something very Parisian that day. After some research, she discovered there was no more-Parisian way to celebrate a first birthday than by going to the garden opened by Napoleon III in 1860. And when we moved to Germany and had a baby, I figured, well this sounds amazing.
And that would be reason enough to go.
We spent a week in the city of love, loving on our little soon-to-be-one-year old boy. Our days were filled with trips to parks, towers, museums, coeurs, rues, baguette shops, and – oh, yeah – we also spent a day at Disney. On the one year anniversary of my son’s birth, the day before we left, it decided to rain. The rain was not torrential and we went anyway. Unfortunately, non-torrential rain means one thing: the park is still open, but most of the rides are not. On a good note: most people in Paris seem to skip Le Jardin when it’s wet – there were no crowds. Plus, our one year old, didn’t really care.
And because of this, I can’t say that our experience is a good indicator either way of if you should go or not.
We had a great time. We looked at the animals, ate some croque monsieur, spent a few Euros to ride the petit train – a train that takes you from the park to the parking lot, and made notes on how very Parisian this place was. Coming from Orlando, where rides continue in most weather scenarios, this place was as far away from everything the Orlando parks are known for – and that would be reason enough to go.
Le Jardin d’Acclimation is definitely a park for families. Because the rides are aimed towards younger children, this may not be the right choice for older kids. It is definitely a park that can take a whole day to visit, however you can also be comfortable spending only a few hours there because of the low entrance fees.
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There are multiple ways to get a crash course in history when you visit someplace new to you. One of my recent favorites are Open Air Museums. In the U.S. the places I think of that are similar to Open Air Museums in Europe (places like the Jamestown Settlement or Old Sturbridge Village) are referred to as Living History Museums. I’m not sure if there are more differences than just the name, but thinking of these in terms of being similar to what I’m familiar with helped me understand it more. That’s a mouthful.
In the Netherlands, head to Arnhem to catch a historical and cultural examination in their Openluchtmuseum.

As with most things Dutch, I find this museum to be extremely child and family friendly. The idea is not to learn by seeing, but by doing. Throughout the exhibitions there are opportunities for families to get dirty, to try things themselves, and to be involved in the process. As if that’s not enough, there is also a cable tram running throughout the park, a small tram depot, a playground, a boat dock, mini cars to play in at the cafes, and plenty of pancakes and poffertjes to go around.

Scattered throughout the property are representations of life back when. Many of the buildings are either replicas from one of the Netherland’s cities, or the original building relocated for educational purposes. Through informative plaques and hand-on activities, it’s easy to let history soak in. One of my favorite attractions is a typical street with the same home repeated several times. As you walk into the home you see what life was like in that same place at different points in history. Pretty cool.
When talking about Dutch culture there are certain images that come to mind: windmills, boats, cheese, Indonesian food, tulips, royalty. It’s all there. Many of the exhibitions are perfect for learning the country’s history, there are significant tributes about the modern society as well.
Seriously. It almost felt more like a really cool playground than a glance into important aspects of entire country. It wove the education seamlessly. It’s impossible to walk out without both a smile and a brain filled with interesting tidbits. The perfect way to start any Dutch adventure.
This is an ideal destination for anyone interested in Dutch culture and is looking for a day trip (or longer) outside of Amsterdam. While it is definitely toddler-friendly, the exhibits would be interesting to people of all ages.
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For me, the main point of interest with Herrenchiemsee is that it’s a replica of Versailles in France. The major differences being that’s it’s even more ornate than Versailles. For those that have only been to Versailles (I haven’t been there, so I don’t know) they’ll probably think that’s impossible. Well, the news for them is that it is actually an incomplete, more ornate Versailles. Ludwig II died before construction finished.
Another thing that surprised me about this is that it was not built to compete with the original. Instead it is a tribute to France’s King Louis XIV, the Sun King. And that is equally crazy and cool.

The Palace is on an island in the middle of the lake. Herreninsel. There are several cities along the Chiemsee that offer transportation to both Herreninsel and Fraueninsel (Men’s Island and Women’s Island.)
We were there in the winter and the only comfortable way to get to the island was via a short 15 minute ferry ride. The boat was almost empty, which made it easy for us to roll our stroller on board.
From the ferry we walked directly to the palace to buy our tickets and waited the next available tour in English.

Here’s the thing with off-season, specifically wintry destinations in Europe. Specifically castles. Specifically Herrenchiemsee (and Salzburg, which I will write about later this month.)
Off-season travel is great because there are practically no crowds so it feels like you have the place to yourself. One of the big negatives of touristy places are the crowds. Go off-season, though, and you get the benefit of visiting a touristy place without suffocating.
Off-season travel sucks because there are practically no season-dependent decorative items on display. Especially outside. Prien, Chiemsee, and the surroundings are beautiful in the winter – don’t get me wrong. The snow-capped mountains of the alps and the very stereotypical quaint German village makes visiting this area of the world in the winter a good thing. However, the big draw to Herrenchiemsee is the comparisons to Versailles. Part of the appeal of Versailles is its gardens. Obviously, the gardens at Herrenchiemsee are not in bloom in the winter. Also, the fountains? They are turned off and covered to protect them from the weather.
Once inside, we had more of the pros and cons of the off-season travel. Our English-speaking tour group was small – yay!. Some of the rooms were undergoing refurbishment and were missing some items – boo!
Still, with all the negatives of being there without getting to see the gardens in bloom and the full-picture of the interior it was spectacular. I’ve never been to Versailles, nor have I had much interest in it. But seeing Herrenchiemsee actually made me want to see the original.
My three-month old must have loved it because he refused his stroller and preferred to look around. I’m betting he was hoping we were leaving our 600 sq. foot apartment and trading up for serious royal treatment.
My favorite part of the tour was the visit to the Great Hall of Mirrors. I’m familiar with the idea of the room because of the popularity of Versailles version. As I mentioned earlier, Herrenchiemsee is even MORE ornate so this room is even more spectacular than the original. Whereas Versailles has paintings, Herrenchiemsee has 3-d artwork. Also the windows are slightly larger meaning the room is bigger.
Though we only went to Herreninsel to see the palace, there are other activities for people to do on the island. There are paths within the woods, a monastery, and a King Ludwig II museum. For us, though, we wanted to escape the cold and head to the indoor pool on the other side of the lake.

I think this is a good side trip for anyone staying in Southern Bavaria or looking for a stop on a journey between Salzburg, Austria and Munich. Especially if you have an interest in Ludwig’s castles (or castles in general). I would also recommend it to people who are visiting Germany and don’t want to trek to France to see Versailles, or people who have seen Versailles and want to figure out for themselves how this one compares.
This is the biggest attraction within the Prien vicinity and can take from 2-4 hours to the whole day depending on how casually you visit the island.

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In April 2014 I participated in the A-Z Challenge. Every day (except Sundays), I wrote a post on planning tips or memory keeping ideas.
I’ve compiled those here.
![A-to-Z Reflection [2014]](http://travelturtle.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/A-to-Z-Reflection-2014-300x142.jpg)
Before I get to that, I want to write a recap of the experience.
On the suggestion from DJ at Dream Euro Trip, I signed up for this challenge the weekend before it started. I was a little nervous about it. Writing 26 posts in 1 month when I probably only wrote 2-3 posts in the previous 3 months? Plus, April was a busy month for me. I had plans. I was going on a mom’s trip to London and then my husband was going to leave me with the two kids as he went to the US for work for two weeks. But, I signed up and went for it.
I made some quick decisions at the beginning. I was going to keep it on the family travel theme, but anywhere from the planning to the memory keeping aspect of it. I was not going to allow myself to get too caught up in everything. I wanted to write 26 posts, I didn’t want to write 26 blogging masterpieces.
I pulled out a spread sheet and came up with an A-Z list of family travel topics. Out of all my pre-planned ideas, I only stuck with two “R is for Rest” and “X Marks the Spot”.
The rest kind of just happened.
I realized early on that I wanted my posts to go live the same time every day. 7am. Done.
I wanted to connect with other travel bloggers. Done.
I wanted to post every day of the challenge. Done.
I wanted to get better at social media. Done, but not as much as I would have preferred.
I wanted to write without too much worry about photos and perfection. Uh- yeah, definitely no perfection here. Done.
My favorite parts of this challenge was starting a new day and seeing what some of the people wrote about. I liked the camaraderie with the participants. I appreciated all the comments, especially when my topic doesn’t apply to some of the reader’s lives. They still humored me, left thoughtful comments, and were very encouraging. Thank you.
I also liked just the actual writing of posts. Getting it done. Mosts of these things were things I wanted to write about anyway. The challenge gave me a reason to.
I will definitely participate again. While I still don’t want to write 26 masterpieces, I will add photos to my posts, pin some of those photos, and take part in more social media. I’m hoping that my next theme focuses on places instead of just travel tips. Oh, and I definitely want better titles. (If there’s one thing I learned, I’m not a title writer.)
Some things I’d like seen done differently? Perhaps a link-up for each day and letter. That way it would be easier to keep up with people who were participating, but maybe we had missed in scanning the sign up sheet.
Overall, I highly recommend this to anyone looking to have some fun while also being challenged.
And without further adieu…
A is for Airplanes with Small Children
B is for Breakfast while Traveling
C is for Count: Children and Bags + Learn Numbers
D is for Disney and Disney-fication
E is for Emergencies while Traveling Abroad
F is for Favorites
G is for Gear Suggestions for Traveling Families
H is for Hotel Alternatives
I is for Instagram Travel Thursday
J is for Jokes while Traveling
K is for Kids Love to Travel
L is for Listen to your Kids
M is for Money
N is for Nail Clippers and Packing Lists
O is for Over the Counter Drugs
P is for Parks, Playgrounds, and Picnics
Q is for Queues with Little Ones
R is for Rest Planning
S is for Scavenger Hunt
T is for Touristy Attractions
U is for “Unknown” Destinations
V is for Volunteering Trips for Families
W is for Water – Water – Water
X is for X Marks the Spot
Y is for Yucky Food while Traveling
Z is for Zoos and Science Centers
![survivor-atoz [2014]](http://travelturtle.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/survivor-atoz-2014-300x150.jpg)
And here we are – 26 letters later – Z.
I can’t believe I’m going to talk about Zoos. When I first decided to restart this Travel Turtle as a family travel blog, I read a lot of like-minded blogs. There was a one or two-week period when I kept reading about zoos. I turned to my husband (we were in a car) and I said, “I don’t know why people keep writing about zoos. I mean, they’re zoos. What’s there to know? You go in and look at animals. Besides, why would people go to zoos when they’re visiting a new city anyway?”
Then a funny thing happened. Over the course of this past year, I’ve been to several zoos.
Turns out there are legitimate reasons to visit a zoo, or a science center, or a lot of other types of family friendly attractions that could exist closer to home when you’re far from home. Before having kids, I hadn’t visited a zoo since at least high school. So it surprised me that they are actually interesting.
I was kind of against them because of the cruelty to animals thing, and I’ll get to that in a second.
Zoos and science centers are not the same the world over. When you are traveling, the nearest zoo will have a large section devoted to local animals. The nearest science center will give insight into the natural and scientific story of the region – and it’s really cool.
So, don’t be like me and dismiss a zoo or a science center while on vacation because you have an annual pass to the one in your neighborhood. You can learn a lot from both. (And, of course, your kids will love them, they have playgrounds, hand-on activities, and kid-friendly eating establishments.)
This is where the “who writes about zoos and science centers” comes in. I never visited zoos because of fear of animal mistreatment. I never stayed knowledgeable in zoo facilities because I just never went. Then I visited one that was near me and had great reviews. That’s when I discovered the value in a good zoo. Employees are not just people who needed any job. These are competitive jobs that require some level of interest and education. These people are people who care about animals. They’re animal advocates and they’re showing the visitors why animals matter.
Not all zoos are created equally, unfortunately. I know I have some readers that may have good information for me to look into to make sure I’m visiting a zoo that really puts the animals first. I’d love to hear your opinions about this. What should I look out for, if you don’t visit zoos why not, what (if anything) would you recommend in the place of zoos?
In some of my research I’ve discovered that in the United States, the USDA is the only government organization regulating the treatment of animals at zoos and aquariums. There are various accreditation agencies, each with their own standards, but membership into those agencies are also fee-based. Be aware of that distinction when you see that a zoo has a certain accreditation.
For the zoos I have been lucky to visit the past 12 months, I’ve had a good experience. For me, this is invaluable. My son loves animals. I want to take him to a place that will foster his interest, where animals are properly treated, and employees are enthusiastic and knowledgeable. This is why I read reviews.
Now I’m putting it here, for the last letter of the A-Z Challenge. It’s an introduction to what I’ll be doing in May. One thing that has been lacking in my website are reviews about places like zoos, science centers, and tourist spots. These places often have a website filled with the practical information such as prices, directions coming from the highway or public transportation, maps, and hours of operations. That’s only part of what parents want to know, though. They want to know if the price was worth it, if the animals’ environments are up to a high standard, if the kids like it, if the food was good, and other pointers and opinions they can’t find on the official website. And since this is a family travel blog, I want to provide that information.
So please come back in May and read about a few of the zoos we’ve visited, some of our favorite science centers, and other fun vacation spots (my line up includes scenic views in Austria, Paris, and Switzerland, government buildings, amusement parks, museums, mountains, beaches, castles, national parks, and UNESCO sites)
Thank you to everyone who joined me, read along, and commented during this challenge. It was truly a challenge (I had around 70 posts before starting, now I’m at 96!). Every day I highlighted a travel blogger participant. Here’s a complete list of those blogs. Some of them have kept up, some of them are still working on it, and some of them are finished at the moment, but at some point in this challenge they provided me with fun travel information and for that – thank you!

One last thing. I’ve started a Triberr account for anyone who participated in the A-Z challenge and wants to continue to connect. I find it to be a really easy sharing tool, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. If you want to join the A-Z Travel Bloggers tribe, click here and let me know.
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*** This may be a sensitive story for those with weaker stomachs***
Have you ever witnessed a pig being slaughtered? I’m not talking in movies, nor do I mean a slaughterhouse.
The first, and so far only, time I have “witnessed” a pig slaughter was when I was seven. We were two weeks into our 3 week family visit in the Philippines. It was a comfortably warm December and we were prepping for our Christmas feast. The pig on the farm, the one I had grown accustomed to seeing on my aunt’s property, was being prepared for the big roast.
As soon as the preparation of killing the pig started, I walked away. My aunt lived in was a bamboo hut, in the middle of a clearing, in the middle of a jungle. There was no way to escape the sound. That squeal. It was a sound I could never forget. It was the sound of death. I don’t know how long he squealed for, it felt like eternity, but I did know one thing. I knew I was never going to eat that pig.
So when his head showed up as the centerpiece on the Christmas Eve dinner table, surrounded by dishes that included other parts of him, I happily skipped my meal.
One week and two days later, it was my birthday. We were leaving the next day. My Filipino family threw a second feast. Instead of a pig, though, they killed a chicken.
I watched in mixed horror/fascination. With the head still hanging by a small piece of neck skin, that chicken ran all over the farm. I don’t even know if he made a sound. Whereas the pig made every other noise in the jungle disappear, this chicken made every other sight and sense disappear. An eternity later, he stopped.
I watched as my grandmother plucked its feathers and drained its blood.
And that night, the chicken was the star event on the dinner table. And that night, I happily ate it up.
Many, many years later I spoke with my dad about these two events. He told me he thought I would never eat the chicken. I told him I was starving.
So – what does this have to do with yucky food and travel? Well, seven-year old me was not an adventurous eater. I was definitely a burger and fries kind of girl. The only dishes I attempted to eat while in the Philippines were ones I was already slightly familiar with because my mom made them. I ate adobo, rice, pan de sol, and lumpia. The diversity in Filipino dishes goes well beyond those more famous dishes. It was not yucky, I just didn’t know it.
But, after 3 weeks of getting by with the minimum. I would eat anything.
These days, one of my favorite reasons to travel is to try the food. I’m still pretty picky. But, I remember my childhood experiences, I try to approach the subject differently with my kids. If I can eat that chicken – my kids can at least taste a food I’m also willing to eat.
Whether traveling or not, there are foods kids don’t like and will automatically classify as “yucky food”. Most of the time, they haven’t even tried the food, they just don’t like that it looks different from what they are used to, or maybe it’s because they wanted tacos not fajitas, or maybe they’re just being negative.
Like all other things travel and/or kid related, preparation goes a long way. It starts at home. With some small adjustments willingness to at least try new foods while abroad should be ever-so-slightly easier – if the kids have had their naps, and had time to get the wiggles out, and aren’t mad at you for not buying them the souvenir paperweight they’ve always wanted.
Here are a few tips that will hopefully help dealing with a pickier eater by slowly introducing new flavors and dishes to them.

Guide and Travel has dedicated their A-Z Challenge to Romania. Lots of great information on what I believe to be a beautiful country. I haven’t been, but it sits near the top of my list.
Treasure maps and quest maps seem to be made for children and the adventurous at heart. I love them. I even made my son’s first birthday a pirate theme with a map to get to our living room to celebrate the day.
So here it is, a simple way to give your trips a little more excitement for the little ones. Turn it into a quest. How do you do it?
As you notice, most of these steps are true for any itinerary planning. The added features are a specific map and/or clues. It’s having an end goal that is intentionally highlighted. It’s a little more work for a bigger punch.
I wanted to try it out, so I imagined a simple walk from the Eiffel Tower’s nearest metro stop to the top of the tower. A very typical trip people will make when they visit Paris. Will it win me any writing awards? No. Was it fun and easy? Mostly. Would my kids enjoy it? I hope so!
This would be the full map with the first clue:

And here are the subsequent clues. Simple rhymes that aren’t really clues, but fun. Not really too researched because I just wanted to get it done. You can spend as much time or as little time on something like this. I think it’s cool.
The biggest feature, we have here to see,
Is the big old fountain between the small trees,
It is named the Fountain of Warsaw – that’s true,
There’s a bunch of different fountains, putting on a show for you,
Let’s count them together, how many could there be?
Let’s walk to the end – come on follow me!
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Ah the Eiffel, it’s getting close now,
There’s one little stop, a ride on a cow.
No, no, I’m kidding of course.
We’ll not ride a cow. Instead just a horse.
We’ll wait in a line, not talk on our cell.
To ride what I think’s the world’s greatest carousel.
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That was fun!
We’re almost done.
But before we go up.
I want a drink in a cup.
With a side of a crepe.
Doesn’t that sound great?
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We made it.
We made it.
All the way to the top!
We even managed, with more than one stop!
Let’s look out below, at the whole of the lot.
And be happy we played “X marks the spot”.
Expat Liv writes about her life in India and is participating in this year’s A-Z Challenge. Though the challenge is almost over, you can still check out what she did and follow her as she completes the final letters.
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Here’s another type of travel to consider: volunteer trips for families.
I haven’t done this with my family, yet. I know I will when they are older. Some of my favorite bonding memories with my friends are those where we volunteered with an organization for something greater than us. I can’t wait to bond in this type of meaningful way with my kids.
This isn’t something, when the time comes, that I will go into half-heartedly. I imagine hours upon hours of researching the right fit.
In the meantime, I want to do things a little differently with this post.
First, I want to ask if anyone reading this has any experience with a volunteer trip – domestic or international. If so, please leave your thoughts in the comments, or shoot me an email.
Second, here are a list of resources I’ve found online. I will update this list and this post as I learn more about it.
I have loved doing this A-to-Z challenge. It’s been fun writing new posts almost daily, and meeting so many travel bloggers. I can’t believe we’re already at V! Only 4 more (very difficult) letters to go. I’m not ready to stop these daily, themed posts. In the month of May I’m going to write a new post every week-day about an attraction (museum, park, anything) that our family has visited. I’ve wanted to write about these anyway, and this is a good time to do it. If this is something that interests you, please join me! I hope you stick around for those posts – and I’m sure I’ll still check out a lot of your blogs in the future.

A funny thing, my A-to-Z spotlight blog of the day, the Traveling Suitcase, is also going to continue the A-Z challenge in May. Let’s see if we can get a group of travel bloggers doing the same! In the meantime, check out their blog!
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Yesterday I wrote about touristy attractions. Today I want to discuss the complete opposite: unknown attractions. I value showing our children the popular destinations. However, there’s something fun in discovering something relatively unknown.
The problem is – how do you find out about these places?
Well, the good news is most of these places are in a guidebook. Not all guidebooks, though. Comprehensive guidebooks, focused on a smaller region, will have more unknown sites and destinations. This is actually a good thing. No one wants to spend their vacation in a place that is just “meh“. If it’s not in a comprehensive guidebook focused on the region, that might be because it’s just “meh“. (And if it’s not in a comprehensive guidebook and you still want to go – that’s ok, too!)
The bad news is that off the beaten path places are not off everyone’s beaten path. I tend to think that statement refers to sites that aren’t on a top 10, 20, or even 50 list of things to do. These are places that your circle of friends might not be as familiar with, but they’re likely a local person’s treasure. The reason this is bad news: crowds are still possible. Don’t worry we’ll talk more about that in a moment.
There are four types of unknown/lesser known destination trips.
For the purpose of this post, I’ll focus on the first three I listed above. Remote, challenging, and expensive destinations aren’t something people go into lightly. I’m sure anyone going there with their family will get better resources than I can offer.
For the other three, though, I want to talk about how to find and enjoy them. Remember, the nature of the “unknown” place is they don’t get as many tourists as wherever you’re from. Hopefully, these tips will help.
Every day of the A-Z Challenge I link to another participant writing about something travel-related for the challenge. I actually picked my links before I knew what I would be posting about on any given day. Today’s planned link is with Tui Snider’s Offbeat and Overlooked Travel. Lots of great information fitting in with going to places that aren’t necessarily on a typical top 20 list.
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